“You seem like a happy person”.
I was interviewing with the Program Trading group of a Investment Bank in San Francisco. This was in 1998, and the person interviewing me was the Head of the desk. Let’s call him M.
M Is now at a very high position in another Investment Bank. His rise has been spectacular, and he is generally acknowledged as a born leader. In another post, I may expand about this and my experience with leadership skill in general.
An Investment Bank generally has a few ranks. At the bottom is the Associate, and at the top is the Managing Director (MD). I was interviewing for an Associate Position. And M was the MD.
From M’s point, the only thing that mattered at my level was whether I was a pleasant enough fellow. In hindsight this makes complete sense. I wasn’t going to make any difference to the revenue or “pnl” as it is known on Wall-Street. But he would have to see my face everyday in the morning..and that too early in the morning. San Francisco is 3 hrs behind New York, so we all had to be at our desk by 5:00 am. Imagine coming early in the morning and seeing a sad face. That spoils the whole mood!
M also cared a lot about how you dressed. Thankfully on that day I was dressed in my best Interviewing attire. So everything was good. Later, my poor dressing sense would cause him mild annoyance, but by that time I had developed a good rapport with everyone, so he overlooked it.
Now don’t get the impression that Wall Street is completely shallow. In many ways it’s a total meritocracy. As long as you are bringing in the moolah, and you are compliant with the laws and regulations, nobody cares much about anything else.. Talent and hard work are respected, and over time you tend to do well.
But first you need to get in.
Looking back I was very lucky. Because of the strong demand for a job on Wall Street, it is very difficult to break in unless you have a degree from a top school. It also helps (for some jobs) to have a Ph.D. I just had M.S from the University of Cincinnati. For sure, I had received a first rate education, but my degree just didn’t have the cachet of a MIT or Stanford or Harvard.
My undergraduate degree though was from the Indian Institute of Technology Bombay (IITB). And in some circles, it carries the same weight as MIT. The person doing the initial phone screen (let’s call him S) knew about IITB. He probably also had had a good day in the market that day. Whatever the reason may be, he decided to give me a chance, and called me.
He started by asking me about the Monty Hall Problem. Now I had heard about the problem before, and I told him the solution quickly. I also told him that I had known the answer before. He liked my honesty and asked me another puzzle. I don’t recall solving that one completely, but he was happy enough with my attempts that he passed me on to another phone interview by his colleague Y.
Now Y had previously been a faculty member in Computer Science at Yale. His specialty was Programming Languages. He asked me to compare the Programming Languages that I had used. My only experience was with Fortran and C++, and Fortran always seemed to me to be easier to use for the kind of numerical simulations I did. He listened to me, and then asked me what I thought of Lisp. I had heard of Lisp, but I thought it was something used by Artificial Intelligence Community a long time ago, and had since been abandoned. Y corrected me. He explained to me that Lisp was a functional language, that functional languages had lots of useful constructs. He spoke about lambda calculus, and first-class functions, and closures. But wasn’t Lisp slow? I asked. No he said. With recent compiler advances you can get performance close to mainstream languages. He told me about tail call optimization, and other developments. It was heady stuff, with most stuff going way above my head. But I was excited.
Now one cool thing about excitement is that it’s contagious. Y was happy with my excitement. They decided to fly me to San Francisco for a in-person interview.
My first interview was with M. He didn’t ask me many questions. He knew I knew nothing. So what’s the point? On the other hand I had lots of questions for him. I asked him how he manages. How he interacts with his team? What does he think about the industry? What ambitions he had for the group? M loved to talk, and by god he was good at it. He was energized, and he could sell. He sold me a vision of this small group in San Francisco creating such value for clients that very soon we would be the only game in town. I was literally dancing at this point.. I wanted this job so bad, I would have signed for free.
In all the years since then, I have never met anyone who could sell better than M. Maybe Steve Jobs could, but just maybe.
M decided that I was a “happy” person. I had passed the filter.
The next interview was with Y again. I had already built a rapport with Y on the phone. So the interview was more relaxed. He looked at my resume, and asked me some questions about some numerical simulation I had done. It was about some flow over an airfoil, and I had broken the problem into smaller parts in a certain way. It always seemed to work in my tests, but he asked me whether I could prove that the split would always work. I couldn’t of course, but I asked him about his thoughts. He said he was not sure but a certain approach may be promising. And in a few steps he managed to give a nice Inductive proof about why the split would work. I was thrilled. What a group!
The next interview was with J. J was a Quant and a genuinely nice guy. He asked me what an eigenvalue was. I had taken the normal sequence of Linear Algebra courses, and knew the answer. He then asked me about generalized eigenvectors. I had no idea, but J laughed and said he had forgotten too. It was all nice and pleasant.
There were a few more interviews with the Technology and the Back office teams. But nobody gave me a hard time.
Finally, I met with S again. If hired, I was going to report to S and but work mostly with Y. He told me he would call me within a week with their decision.
I got the call the next day. I was in.